原帖由 等待 于 2006-11-18 22:48 发表
LZ的ID是否和在YDY的一样啊??em21

最近总是见到你呢~~:loveliness:



是的,是的.只是以前没在QAF上发过帖,只下片.这不,痛该前非了,特地发个主题帖!em07


倒是没见到你在YDY上的这个ID啊?em09

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问你们一下,怎么样才能尽快把权限升上去,好多帖子都看不了啊!em20

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李安一直在朝前走,而且很踏实,这是我欣赏和关注他的原因。

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原帖由 空空之空 于 2006-11-18 23:32 发表
倒是没见到你在YDY上的这个ID啊?em09




我记得有在YDY上见过'等待'啊.......连头像都没变..........em08

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原帖由 空空之空 于 2006-11-18 23:37 发表
问你们一下,怎么样才能尽快把权限升上去,好多帖子都看不了啊!em20  




谁让你以前都潜水来着...............em06

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原帖由 yi0101 于 2006-11-18 23:51 发表




谁让你以前都潜水来着...............em06


靠,我难过的不行,你还来给我当头一盆冷水!em03

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我覺得BBM其實排得不錯,我個人覺得蠻有内涵的
故事情節蠻讓人感動
我獨守著最後的孤單

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好莱坞投巨资重点打造的
这就是错误的说法。。。。

bbm从有人想拍到现在拍出来,转了多少手,可以自己去查查
那一夜,天使划过夜空,轻轻地堕入地狱;抱起残缺的恶魔猎人的灵魂,魂归大地;这一天,猎人将匕首插入天使的胸口,肩膀上的烙印微微泛红。

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BBM
直人化倾向严重 不够gay

还是喜宴好多了

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原帖由 yi0101 于 2006-11-18 23:49 发表




我记得有在YDY上见过'等待'啊.......连头像都没变..........em08



偶在YDY的ID是"白开水"em07

头像用的素"绿箭"em23
yi0101,也经常在YDY看到你呢~~ID也素yi0101吧~~em03
空空~~有空的时候可以发一些片片到MO,这可比发贴快多了~~em01

村子里的人都很不错哦~~大家都很热心的~~

祝你在这玩的愉快哦~~em23

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原帖由 等待 于 2006-11-19 13:45 发表



偶在YDY的ID是"白开水"em07

头像用的素"绿箭"em23


...



我记错鸟..............em21

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原帖由 等待 于 2006-11-19 13:45 发表



偶在YDY的ID是"白开水"em07

头像用的素"绿箭"em23
yi0101,也经常在YDY看到你呢~~ID也素yi0101吧~~em03
空空~~有空的时候可以发一些片片到MO,这可比发贴快多了~~em01

...


原来你就是白开水啊!em01

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原帖由 空空之空 于 2006-11-19 18:27 发表


原来你就是白开水啊!em01




                               :handshake :handshake :loveliness: :loveliness: :loveliness:

[ 本帖最后由 等待 于 2006-11-19 18:59 编辑 ]

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我只觉得bbm很闷,一般闷片都很难打动我,除了《日落之前》!
反正bbm我看过一遍就不想再看了!只有两个镜头影响深刻:俯瞰断背山的一幕(景色太美了);两人第一次分别时,Ennis躲在街角哭(唯一的感动)!其他的情节当然我现在还记得,只是我怀疑随着时间溜走我会渐渐把其他的情节都忘记的!

至于演员方面,我是《断背山》和《锅盖头》一起看的!觉得《锅盖头》杰克演的太好了,心里的天平自然也就偏了!

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原帖由 huliwy 于 2006-11-18 02:30 发表
楼主没必要先声明那么多的,同志怎么会为难同志呢?

BBM确实不容易抓住人,发展的慢,而且正如你说的,没什么情欲戏。而且使得好多人硬要把BBM分到别的什么类去,比如最常见的“爱情片”类,还说与同志无关。 ...

这位同学第二句话说到我心里去了。
我一直很不爽很多人说:BBM不是一部同性恋电影,是反映人类情感的电影。
我呸,当了婊子还想立贞节牌坊!算不算粗口?)
再怎么人类普遍情感,也是通过两个男的表现出来的。怎么不说《泰坦尼克号》不是一部异性恋电影,是反映人类情感的电影??!!BBM就是同志电影,爱看不看!!

ps:空空啊,QAF气氛很好的,有什么东西尽管说!!

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激动了,说说我的看法。
BBM在我看过的gay片中不是第一也绝对是前几位的。想当时第一时间下下来,裸看了3遍,很感动的。刚开始节奏是很慢,后来就很好了啊。而且这也是电影风格的问题,缓慢的节奏、压抑的情感、暴风雨前得宁静,然后高潮来临,我觉得这种风格很好。
比BBM节奏慢的电影我也看过很多啊,好好拉。

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关于这个问题我在很多坛子都打过很多字了,今天实在是没什么心情,就不参与讨论了~~

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BBM官方网站上的观众亲身经历(附原文)

原文:

After reading the novella “Brokeback Mountain” by Annie Proulx and seeing the film by the same name by Ang Lee, both have inspired me to write these words.

The book and especially the film are so powerful that it brought forth feelings I have not dealt with properly over the last 30 years. In the character Jack Twist I saw myself 30 years ago when I fell in love with an Ennis Delmar type. It was 1974/1975 about 12 years after the time set in the movie and book but, the attitudes had not changed much at all from 1963.

It was my sophomore year in College when Gary and I fell in love with each other. We too, did not know what this powerfully emotional connection we had was or how to deal with it in a proper manner. It was so taboo we had to keep it a deep dark secret that was nobody else’ s business but our own. But, Gary and I are discovered, just as in the movie when Mr. Aguirre finds out about Jack and Ennis passing the time up on Brokeback Mountain.

We were in the same fraternity and we thought we were very careful about our secret love for one another. I guess, looking back, there was no way we could hide the way we looked at each other or the way we would light up when one or the other of us would walk into a room. Even though we did not embrace or kiss in public, we made sure we portrayed ourselves as one of the guys, one of the fraternity brothers not as two men who were in love with each other. I was 20 years old and Gary was 21 years old.

It is 1976, I was elected President of the fraternity and Gary was elected to a position that dealt with the teachings and rituals as set out by the Bylaws which were based on Christian teachings. Gary took this job very seriously and was a good teacher not only to the new members but he taught the old members the proper way to do the rituals.

One day, The Executive Board of the Fraternity called us in separately toward the end of the Spring 1976 semester and threatened to expose us. The Executive Board said they would expose us to the fraternity members, the College, our families and have us expelled if we did not stop immediately. In their words, they said “our debauchery will not be tolerated under any circumstance”. They also mandated that we resign our posts as Officers of the Fraternity immediately. They did allow us to announce our resignation to the members and we could make up whatever resignation speech we wanted. I made up some speech about wanting to focus on my studies since it was soon to be my Senior year and how I needed to devote all my time towards graduating .

We were scared beyond comprehension, we pushed each other away and blamed each other. We were angry, mad and were forced apart. Our anger was displaced at each other, our world had just been shattered . I look back now and think what an awful thing for two young men ages 22 and 21 to have to endure.

Gary left the end of that Spring 1976 semester and did not return. I continued on and I ended up making the best grades my Senior year because all I did was study to keep my mind off of the trauma I was going through. I did not hear from him nor did I attempt to contact him, I was so scared, so broken hearted and extremely depressed. I could not talk to anyone about this, not family, not friends not a soul.   

In the movie when Ennis Delmar asks Jack Twist if he ever felt that people knew about them by the stares people gave, if he felt people were talking about them. I felt the same way throughout my entire Senior year of College. Everywhere I looked it seemed people were giving off glares. I kept thinking if the 12 members of the Executive Board know then there must be many more because something like that does now stay within the walls of the Executive Board Room. It finds it’s way into living rooms of homes and other Board Rooms. A secret is only a secret if you are the only one who knows the secret.

It took all the courage I had to get up every morning and walk through campus to classes, to sit through a lecture in a classroom full of people. I learned how to fake it through my outgoing nature and through my willpower. I constantly felt like I was in that dream that everybody has that they are walking down the hall of their High School and they are in their underwear and all the other kids are pointing and laughing at them. Except I was in College and I felt like that way everyday I went to classes. I was that kid in the dream in the hallway with only his underwear on and everybody was staring and laughing. I learned how to fake it that nothing was wrong, I learned how to show a positive exterior and not to let anyone not even myself see the true me.

I was a nervous wreck 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I worried constantly that my family would find out especially since my Brother was going to the same College. His Freshman year was my Senior year and he pledged and was accepted into the same Fraternity as me. I was worried sick that he would over hear a “private conversation” in the hallways of the Fraternity house or hushed voices coming from the Board Room about how he is the Brother of the Queer.

The guilt, shame and embarrassment consumed me. I felt like I had a scarlet letter around my neck but instead of an A for adulterer there was a Q for Queer or an F for Faggot.

Because of the ignorance of the times and the ignorance of the executive board, I became so deeply closeted, so deeply in denial that I became numb. I began to look at this ordeal, this catastrophe as a sign from God that I was to graduate from College, find a girlfriend, get a job, get married and have children.

That is exactly what I did. I made myself find a girlfriend, get a job, get married and have children. I used to secretly tell myself that I have to fake it before I make it. I did such a good job at faking it to the world that I started believing my own fake life. I started believing my own bullshit.

No matter how much faking it I did I still thought about Gary all the time but, I dare not contact him for fear of what might happen next. The fear was still with me, inside me eating me up.

After 14 years of marriage, a successful career and two children later I contacted Gary. That day was so special, so sweet and so needed. We picked right back up where we left off but with complications. He was married and I was married but not to each other. I was 37 at he was 38.

We continued to see each other as schedules and excuses for having to be gone from home would allow. I wanted to be with him all the time, I wanted a life together all the time but, he was like Ennis Delmar and in denial not ready to commit to or make a loving caring life happen.

I finally got divorced came out of the closet to the world, to my wife, to my family, to my children and most importantly to myself. It is 1995, I am 40 years old , it has been 20 years since Gary and I first fell in love. So much has changed, so much has improved as far as Gay relationships. But, Gary and I cannot seem to start a life in 1995 which we should have had in 1975.

I move on from one failed gay relationship to another. Gary continues to be in denial and continues marry and remarry women. We stay in contact and see each other year after year and each year I think that this is the year he will wake up, this is the year he will be true to himself and maybe this is the year we will get married and have the life we should have .

I am 47 Gary is 48, he is single now, the booze and the drugs are taking their toil on him physically and mentally. I stopped seeing him and stopped contacting him but, I never stopped thinking about him.

I am now 50 and Gary is 51, I made contact with some of his family members. He is way deep into the booze and drugs. I asked if they would get a message to him, they said they would but, as of yet I have not heard from him. They said he lives alone and drinks heavily.

To this very day I think about what could have been if times would have been different 30 years ago. It is now 2005, what wonderful changes have taken place, what different times we can now enjoy. We have a long way yet to go but, we have come quite a distance in 30 years.

The movie “Brokeback Mountain” is an example of how far we have come and where we have come from.

The ending in the book and the ending in the movie is quite different. In the movie, even though Ennis Delmar did not have much to say when his daughter told him of her upcoming marriage, he said plenty by toasting a glass of whisky with her and to her engagement to be married.

Recently I did the same thing Ennis Delmar did but, with words. My Daughter’s boyfriend asked me if he could marry my Daughter. I told them that Love usually comes around once in life and you should do whatever you need to when you need to do it for that love to grow. I also told them about, Gary, the love of my life and how I have never been in love since

My future son in law was quiet for a few moments then said that he did not mean to be disrespectful or morbid but, he sure was glad what happened between me and Gary happened the way it did because otherwise he would not be marrying the love of his life.

是Annie Proulx的中篇小说《Brokeback Mountain》和李安导演的同名电影,让我留下了这些文字。

这部书——尤其是同名电影是如此震撼,牵扯出近三十年来我无法处理的感情。在剧中的Jack Twist身上,我找到了自己30年前、在与一个类似于Ennis Delmar的男人相爱时的影子。那大约是在1974年和1975年之间。虽然是在书中(剧中)安排的“1963年”的12年后,然而公众(对同性恋)的态度,却没有太大的改变。

Gary和我是在我大学二年纪认识的。我们(如剧中人物)一样,不知道彼此间强烈的感情联系究竟是什么,也不知道该何去何从。显而易见,这种感情是不容于社会的,我们只有将它埋成一个秘密,关在黑暗的、只属于我们两人的角落里。然而,我们的关系还是被发现了,就像在剧中,当Jack和Ennis缠绵于断背山,被Aguirre先生发现了一样。

我们在同一个“兄弟会”里,我们一直以为自己将这份秘密的爱也秘密地进行着。当我回首过去,我不禁猜想:也许我们(的爱)根本就无法遮掩——我们那些深情的对视;当一方走进房间时,另一方无法克制的喜形于色。我们也从不在公共场合亲吻甚至是拥抱,我们一直确信我们很好地伪装了自己,伪装成众多兄弟会成员中的普通份子,而非两个身处热恋的男人。那时,我20岁,而Gary是21。

1976年,我被选举为兄弟会的主席,而Gary则依据(兄弟会)那些建立在基督教义上的法则,被选举承担了教育(会员)宗教礼仪的任务。Gary相当谨慎地履行着职责,而他确实也是一个好的传授者,这一点在新老会员的身上都有着体现。

一天,在1976年春季学期即将结束时,执行委员会分别召见了我们,并威胁要揭发我们。执行委员会说,如果我们不立刻停止现有的关系,他们会将我们的事情曝光给全部会员,既而整个学校,甚至我们两人的家庭,最后将我们赶出学校。他们还命令我们即刻辞去现有的兄弟会的职务。他们允许我们当众念了辞职书,并给了我们捏造辞职理由的自由。我是这样写的:我的大三即将到来,我是多么需要将全部是时间用来学习……

我们遭受了(常人)无法理解的惊吓,我们将彼此(远远)推开并相互指责。我们愤怒,失控并最终被强迫分开。我现在回望那些日子,不禁想:对于两个年仅21、2岁的年轻人,这是多么可怕的一件事。

Gary在那个1976年的春季学期末永远地离开了(学校),而我则继续学习并以第一的成绩完成了我大三的学习,因为,只有学习才能让我在过往的伤痛中求得暂时的安宁。我没有收到过他的来信,而我自己也从没有尝试着去联系他——我是那么害怕,那么心碎,那么深受打击。我无法和任何人倾诉……家人?朋友?那一个(已经走远的)灵魂……

电影中,Ennis Delmar曾向Jack Twist:他是否感觉到别人已经通过注视而察觉到他们,是否感觉到公众在对他们议论纷纷。(事实上,)我整个大三就是这么过来的。似乎我能看到的每个角落里,都有别人的注视。我一直担心:既然执行委员会的12个委员已经知道此事,那么这件事便不会乖乖地停留在他们的办公室里,它会在各家客厅和别的委员会办公室里被来回传着。所谓秘密,只能是那些唯有你才知道的事。

每天清晨,我都要鼓起十二分勇气才能从床上起来,穿过校园去教室上课,并在人满为患的教室里“听完”整堂课。我已经(渐渐)学会了如何通过自己友善的个性和意志力去假装。我越来越觉得,自己身处一个大家都会有的梦里:在高中的礼堂里走着,身上却只穿着内衣,其他的人都指着自己,嘲笑着。我就是那一个只穿了内衣的孩子,而每个人都在盯着我,嘲笑着我——唯一的区别是,我是在大学里。我学着去假装一切如常,学着作出一个积极的外在,不让任何人——包括我认清自己的内在。

我是一个精神脆弱的病人,每天24个小时,每周7天地熬着。在弟弟进入我的学校学习后,我越发担心自己的家人发现真相。他的大一正值我的大三,那时侯他恰巧宣誓并入了相同的兄弟会。我过度地紧张着——说不定他会在“兄弟会”厅室的过道里听到某次“窃窃私语”,抑或是在委员会办公室的门外听到友人称他为“一个同志的弟弟”。

罪恶感,羞耻心和屡屡尴尬让我筋疲力竭。我觉得我的脖子上贴着一个猩红的字母,不是代表成绩优秀的“A”,而是代表同性恋的“Q”和“F”(注:Q代表“queer”,F代表“faggot”,均代表“男同性恋”,后者还含有很强的侮辱性)

因为对时间的忽视和对“执行委员会”的逃避,我开始严重地自闭并陷入了深深的自我否定——我变得麻木。我开始将一切看成是上帝给我的严峻考验,于是我顺利从大学毕业,找到一个女朋友,找到一份工作,结婚并有了自己的孩子。

这就是我所做的。我强迫自己找到一个女朋友,找到一份工作,结婚并有了自己的孩子。我曾经暗暗告诉自己:在行动之前便要伪装好。我是如此精于向整个世界伪装(自己),以至于自己都开始相信自己所伪装出的一切——一切的废话和谎言。

尽管我伪装了那么多,可是我还是时刻想着Gary,思念着他,可是,我不敢去联系他,我恐惧着未知的将来。那些恐惧就这样跟着我,进入我心里,侵蚀着我……

在结婚14年后,已经拥有了成功事业和两个孩子的我(终于)联系了Gary。那一天意义非凡,是那么甜蜜而又那么渴望。我们重拾那些分别时的旧日时光,却感情复杂着:我们都和别人结了婚。那时我37岁,而他,是38岁。

我们在各自离家理由充分并不扰乱家庭计划的情况下,继续保持着联系。我真希望与他相守下去,永不分离;但他却如Ennis Delmar般认为一切言之过早,从而否定了我的心愿,阻止了一段可能的充满爱与关怀的新生活。

我最终(与妻子)离婚,并向整个世界公布了我的性取向——我的妻子,我的家人,我的孩子尤其是对我自己。那是1995年,那时的我已到不惑之年,(回头看,)我与Gary的初坠情网早已是20年前的事了。很多都有了改变,尤其是对同性关系(的接受度),然而,我和Gary却已似乎无法开始那发生于1975年,迟来了整整20年的生活。

我从一段失败的同性恋情转向另一段;Gary则继续否定着“我们”,在与不同女人的结合和分开中周旋。我们依旧保持着联系,年复一年地见面,而每一年,我都期盼着他的及时“苏醒”,期盼着他对自己的诚实,期盼着我们早该有的婚姻和生活。

在我47岁,Gary48岁的时候,他单身了。但是,酒精和毒品在他的身体和精神上“辛勤”地发挥着作用。我停止了和他的见面和联系,但我却从没停止对他的想念。

当我50岁,Gary51岁的时候,我和他的家人取得了联系。Gary已经在酒精和毒品里险得太深了。我问他们能否为我向Gary带话,他们表示直到我不再收到他的来信时才行。他们说他独自生活着,并喝得很凶。

因为这一天,我不禁在想,如果颠覆了30年前的一切,(我和Gary)又会如何呢?现在是2005年,(一切都)发生了多么棒的变化!这又是怎样的一个我们可以尽情享受的不同时代啊!与30年前相比,进步得实在太多太多了。

电影《Brokeback Mountain》展示了我和Gary是怎样开始,从什么地方开始,而又无奈地止步于何处。

书的结尾和电影的颇为不同。电影中,尽管Ennis Delmar在得知女儿即将到来的婚期后没有太多要说的,但事实上,为她和她的订婚、结婚敬上一杯whisky,已经表达了太多。

最近,我做了和Ennis Delmar一样的事,不过,是用语言。我女儿的男友问我是否愿意将女儿嫁给他,我对他们说,爱于人的一生往往只有一次,你们应该做好让爱生长所需要的一切。我还告诉他们关于Gary——我一生的爱的事,还有我们怎样止步于那一次……

我那个未来的女婿沉默良久,然后这样说到:他并非想要无礼或是让人厌恶,不过,他的确实感谢在我和Gary身上发生的一切,否则,他就娶不到今生的挚爱了。

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事实上国内很多对本片没感觉没共鸣的都是还没怎么经历世事的小孩,或者就是没看明白本片真正着眼的一个很严重的一个社会问题。[只是处于一些可以理解的必要考虑,李安导演啊主演啊编剧啊什么的公开场合很少提到这一点]那就是男同志人群进入传统的异性恋婚姻结婚生子,妻子成为了事实上的牺牲品而不自觉这一社会现象。不要说在中国,就是在相对要开放得多的美国,现在也有数以百万计的Gay Guy处在结婚生子同时偷偷在外边找男人的这样一个状态。这不仅对这些数以百万计的妻子和他们的小孩,就是对这些男人本身,是一个非常大的悲剧。相关的还有侧面展现恐同者杀害/迫害同性恋等等,这些都是非常严酷的社会问题。类似的问题,之前的涉同题材的影片也有少部分有所涉及。但这是第一次有一部影片在艺术价值,社会影响力,还有在这些个问题的表现力度等等几个方面都达到比较高的水平。这个才是断一片能够在影史上,在同志文化史上留下重重一笔的原因。两位男主角的感情线当然分量很重,但是如果两位被蒙在鼓里的妻子的线索表现的不如现在强和出色,那本片的地位是达不到现在的高度的。所以请大家务必要注意到这些方面,不要被国内的一些评论和自己脑中的某些想当然的想法给误导了。看了我的这些话,希望部分园友能够对本片有一个新的认识。~~

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还有一点就是断的成功,使得更多的同志题材的优秀小说有望被改编为电影。有一些诸如The Front Runner这样被公认为是目前最好的同志题材小说之一的作品,被搬上荧幕的可能性也大大增加了。[关于这点大家可以看看thefrontrunner作者在官网的一篇文]这也是断起到的积极作用之一。
http://www.thefrontrunner.com/comments_1205.html


还有就是对好莱坞片曾经的一个非常辉煌的大类“传统西部牛仔片”做出一些很重大的颠覆。这个很多的专业影评都有涉及,具体就不展开。

所以李安导演和很多人都说BBM不仅仅就是gay cowboy movie而已,说得当然是很对的。断一片承载的东西实在太多了

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以上供楼主参考。如果单说两位男主角恋情描写那可能比不上别的一些经典同片,但是BBM是不能够被简单定义为同性恋电影的,就像没有人会说女魔头,时时刻刻是同性恋电影,虽然主角都是女同,但影片的着眼点和定位还要高和宽得多

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nastyg朋友,看了你的帖真的是受教多多!而且一发就是好几帖,帖帖让人感动!em20

看来在生活阅历上面我真的是还很缺乏,你提到的好几个问题我都没想到过,少少几个想到过的,也思虑得很浅显.

希望随着的年岁的增长,我对事物的看法能够深刻成熟起来!

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这个电影不是简单一句好看不好看就能定义的问题。
个人认为,到了一定的年龄,对剧中人物的境遇有了认同感,可能会有更深层次的体会。
就我目前而言,也只能说,李安在节奏和剧情的把握上,展现出超凡的能力。对于片中人物的感情纠葛,恐怕我也只是扼腕叹息,并没有切肤之痛的感同身受。
Hi, there.

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原帖由 nastyg 于 2006-11-20 10:48 发表
以上供楼主参考。如果单说两位男主角恋情描写那可能比不上别的一些经典同片,但是BBM是不能够被简单定义为同性恋电影的,就像没有人会说女魔头,时时刻刻是同性恋电影,虽然主角都是女同,但影片的着眼点和定位 ...

你也在啊,欢迎一个
那一夜,天使划过夜空,轻轻地堕入地狱;抱起残缺的恶魔猎人的灵魂,魂归大地;这一天,猎人将匕首插入天使的胸口,肩膀上的烙印微微泛红。

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原帖由 空空之空 于 2006-11-20 12:51 发表
nastyg朋友,看了你的帖真的是受教多多!而且一发就是好几帖,帖帖让人感动!em20

看来在生活阅历上面我真的是还很缺乏,你提到的好几个问题我都没想到过,少少几个想到过的,也思虑得很浅显.

希望随着的年岁 ...

em02 你可以去我们的bbm区看看...

官官的bbm讨论是最深刻的....

他的blog作的也是经典的....em02 http://lovinyou.bokee.com/

晕找了一下居然打不开了....em02

[ 本帖最后由 天物堪年 于 2006-11-20 17:51 编辑 ]

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